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Post by maphillips3 on Dec 27, 2009 18:22:35 GMT -5
I feel this being a Charles Bronson site, feel this is a best place to have this type of discussion. We started having alittle bit of a conversation about this, in another topic, but was wanting it to have its own topic. I think this a cool discussion, so here it is... I have always found it interesting, when the topic came up who was the toughest in movies. You see these guys on the screen, and you always wonder if they were as tough off screen, as on it. I've heard for many years that guys from, Leo Gorden, William smith, Richard Egan, Gene lebell, lee Marvin, Neville Brand...to the present Chuck Zito, so I was wondering what you guys think about this topic?
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Post by chaney on Dec 27, 2009 19:38:30 GMT -5
Judo Gene LeBell ... He had enough size, was a world judo champ, and learned old school wrestling from all the great technical guys. He also picked up a lot of boxing because his mother owned the old Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles. The guy is in his mid 70's now and still feared.
Are you familiar with the Steven Seagal story? LeBell can't talk about it because of a court order, but it's said he had a confrontation with Seagal on the set of OUT FOR JUSTICE. Seagal had a bad rep with the stuntmen because he was so rough in fight scenes and was tooting his own horn. Others on the set basically told Seagal that there was an old guy in his 60's there who could put him down. Seagal laughed at them but they put LeBell up to it. LeBell had Seagal in a choke hold in seconds. Seagal claimed he wasn't ready then went for a low blow. This made LeBell mad and he REALLY choked Seagal out. There are claims that Seagal urinated and defecated on himself as he went out. Seagal sued and it was eventually settled with LeBell agreeing not to talk about the incident for fear the publicity would undermine Seagal's then tough guy rep with the public.
Leo Gordon was simply feared, and rightly so for that era. Brothers Lawrence Tierney and Scott Brady too. Seems like they passed the torch off to William Smith in the 60's.
Smith was undefeated as a boxer in the Air Force and studied kenpo with Ed Parker and San Soo Kung Fu (a brutal style utilizing knees and elbows). He once sparred with Chuck Norris. Some 20-30 years later he did an episode of WALKER, TEXAS RANGER and Chuck told him they sparred together. Smith didn't remember sparring with Chuck Norris, but Chuck Norris remembered sparring with him.
Other real tough guys were stuntmen Roy Jenson, Tony Epper, and Robert Tessier.
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Post by maphillips3 on Dec 28, 2009 17:30:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I do remember the Segal story, and heard he did pass out, and crap all over himself. After that incident, Segal had him fired, and had his screen actors guild card taken away, but Segal had it overturned when reports of that incident came out in the entertainment news sections, and just made pact not too talk the whole incident. Thanks Chaney for this discussion, and was wondering if you have anymore stories?
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Post by chaney on Dec 28, 2009 18:32:25 GMT -5
Character Victor Jory was one of the toughest of the old-time actors. He wasn't the biggest guy physically, but he was solid and had boxed and wrestled in his youth. He got into a fight with Errol Flynn at a party and knocked Flynn all over the place. Flynn had a habit of befriending anyone who could beat him and that's what happened with Jory.
When the two worked on DODGE CITY Flynn negotiated for Jory to get into fights with Ward Bond and Guinn "Big Boy" Williams to see who was the toughest among his friends. Jory broke Bond's nose and knocked out Big Boy as well, who at the time was supposed to be the toughest guy around. When they realized they had been set up by Flynn, Jory and Big Boy finished off a bottle of gin together.
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Post by arthurbishop on Dec 28, 2009 19:10:43 GMT -5
I've gotta add something to the Lebell/Seagal story, Blackbelt magazine did an investigation and found that the majority of story was myth, primarily the getting choked out part. Every martial artist knows that Seagal is an excellent martial artist and also very tough. As good as Lebell is he wouldn't have been able to beat Seagal who is one of the strongest and best martial artist in movies, he could even rival Bruce Lee when he was younger.
Errol Flynn could be a contender for hardest man in Hollywood, but I can imagine Flynn acting in that manner which you said in the story. It's hard to find the truth about Flynn, I read My Wicked Wicked Ways (Flynn's biography) which is supposedly fabricated for the most part.
Back on topic, if I had to pick the toughest man in Hollywood I'd probably have to go with Bronson or Mitchum.
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Post by harmonica on Dec 31, 2009 14:19:22 GMT -5
Do you know the Greek character actor Stefanos Miltsakakis.Stefanos's face is quite familiar in action fans but not everybody knows enough about him.Stefanos has a 3-0-0 record in M.M.A. championships.He started with greek-roman wrestling during his puberty. He was also trained in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai.He has twice won the world vale tudo championship(WVC9 & WVC14) beating Mariano Mendoza and Joe Charles.He also won the Universal Above Ground Fighting in 2005 beating Mike Seal. www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSHKN9sYVIk&feature=relatedHe's known for his performances in movies like, Van Damme's "Maximum Risk" & "Derailed", "Bobby Z" and "Daredevil". www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWe5LD2AWlIΑnother tough guy I always admired is the impressive craggy-faced Danny Trejo ex convict and boxer.Everybody knows Trejo.
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Post by maphillips3 on Dec 31, 2009 17:35:49 GMT -5
Those are some pretty cool stories. I was wondering if there are any stories on Robert Mitchum? I believe he was a tough guy, but don't know of any stories about Robert, but I do know that his brother was tough.
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Post by chaney on Dec 31, 2009 18:56:27 GMT -5
Yeah, there are plenty of Bob Mitchum fight stories. The most notable occurred in the early 50's when he was on location for the movie ONE MINUTE TO ZERO in Colorado. He got into a bar fight with a soldier and knocked the guy out. Turned out the soldier was Bernie Reynolds, a pro heavyweight who had been ranked in the top 10 before going into the service. When he was making THIRTY SECONDS OVER TOKYO (1944) at a military base he got into a fight with a real sgt. who was picking on one of the actors and knocked the guy through a door.
Down in the Caribbean for FIRE DOWN BELOW in the late 50's he got into a fight with three sailors and took them out. This made the news wires. While making HEAVEN KNOWS MR. ALLISON John Huston discovered a giant prospective boxer down there who was working on the crew. He thought he had found the next heavyweight champ and goaded Mitchum into getting into a ring and sparring with him. Mitchum knocked the giant out.
Mitchum also got into a bar fight in Ireland when he was making NIGHT FIGHTERS that made the news. Mitch and co-star Richard Harris cleared out a bar after a guy took a cheap shot at Mitchum. There are tons of Mitchum stories. Lee Server's book is full of them and quite an entertaining read.
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Post by maphillips3 on Jan 2, 2010 18:51:54 GMT -5
What do you guys think of Chuck Zito? He is seen as the toughest guy in Hollywood today. he was a bodyguard for alot of the stars, and was apart of the Hells Angels, and boxed in the golden gloves.
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Post by chaney on Jan 2, 2010 21:46:55 GMT -5
Yeah, Chuck Zito is a no-nonsense tough guy. Seems to be relegated to mostly bit parts and uncredited stunt appearances though in his acting career. Surprised he hasn't landed a few bigger roles or even a lead in a direct to video film. He has sort of a cult following based on his legendary toughness. He's pretty well trained in a number of styles of martial arts.
I have his autobiography and it's an interesting read. Think it came out before he made the news for clobbering Van Damme at the Scores strip club with Mickey Rourke in attendance a few years back. Also believe I read somewhere Zito admitted to using steroids and said everyone does them now. Points for honesty.
Another tough guy from that era who used to be a professional bodyguard is Richard Norton, the martial artist from Australia who went on to appear in many low-budget films.
While were on the subject of martial artists, is anyone familiar with Joe Lewis? He's was one of the first martial artists with bodybuilder muscles and has arguably been called the greatest of all time. Bruce Lee offered Lewis the part in RETURN OF THE DRAGON that Chuck Norris ended up playing. At the time Lewis was the Heavyweight Champ and turned Lee down. He ended up making a few films such as JAGUAR LIVES! Wonder if he had continued in Hollywood if he might have become a household name like Chuck.
Anyway, still prefer the tough guys from Bronson's era.
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Post by chaney on Jan 10, 2010 20:43:17 GMT -5
Another guy with a tough guy reputation in Hollywood was Red West, the bodyguard of Elvis. He knew Elvis since high school and kept others from picking on him. Red played college football, was a U.S. Marine, and a nightclub bouncer before entering the movies as a stuntman in the late 1950's. He worked on about all of Elvis' 60's films and was his main sparring partner for karate. Red also did a couple of seasons as a resident stuntman on THE WILD WILD WEST, doing great fight scenes with Robert Conrad. When Elvis went back on tour in the late 60's Red was his head of security. Red became an accomplished black belt and opened a martial arts studio in Memphis. By all accounts, he was not one to mess with.
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Post by chaney on Jan 11, 2010 15:59:24 GMT -5
Forgetting to mention Rod Taylor, who turns 81 today and is being honored all day by TCM. He was a boxer in Australia and could really fight and punch hard. William Smith says he was the toughest guy he ever went up against, and their "Darker Than Amber" fight is legend.
Taylor also beat up Richard Harris a number of times while making "The Deadly Trackers" and most impressively beat up NFL star Jim Brown, his "Dark of the Sun" co-star, a guy who pretty much everyone in the world rightly feared at the time.
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Post by maphillips3 on Jan 23, 2010 17:18:19 GMT -5
What about lee Marvin, and Bronson? I know of their WW2 exploits, but don't of any other things. I believe Charlie beat up 6 guys in a bar one time. I heard Burt Lancaster was abit of a tough guy too. Does anyone know?
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Post by harmonica on Jan 29, 2010 15:21:35 GMT -5
What about the Chinese actor Bolo Yeung? The guy was one of the most amazing bad guys in martial arts cinema.He was practiced in Tai Chi and Wing Chun.He has been a great body-builder, weight-lifter and power-lifter too.He is famous mostly famous because of his, impressively enormous pectorals.He appeared in martial arts classics like "Enter The Dragon" "Bloodsport", "Double Impact", "Shootfighter: Fight to the Death"... and many others.It's said that once he swam from china to Hong Kong.
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Post by chaney on Jan 29, 2010 19:07:10 GMT -5
Bolo is another guy who is surprisingly short. I think he's 5'6" or so but definitely a strong and powerfully built tough guy. Hey, MaPhillips, what's the story with Charlie beating up 6 guys in a bar? I don't remember hearing that one before. Don't know many Burt Lancaster tough guy stories, though his stunt doubles Charles Horvath and Tony Epper both had reputations. Thanks.
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