Charlie vs. Elvis

[chaney]

Okay, here's a hypothetical question. It's been well-established that Charlie didn't get along with Elvis while making "Kid Galahad". Charlie didn't like Elvis' karate, and Elvis didn't like Charlie's muscles. It's also been reported that they both may have been romancing co-star Joan Blackman behind the scenes.
What would have happened if the two had actually got into a fight? (other than Charlie getting blackballed from Hollywood).

Don't forget that Elvis was a legitimate black belt before he got all fat and disoriented in the 70's. What if they had just put on boxing gloves in the ring and gone a round or two? Mushy Callahan, the trainer on the film, said that Elvis had boxing talent as well, but I get the feeling that Charlie would have destroyed Elvis in the ring with gloves on. Outside of the ring would have been interesting. Karate vs. streetfighter.

What do others think?

[harmonica]

He had a black belt but that doesn't mean anything.I bet he had no fighting background or actual experience.He was skilled enough to perform the karate techniques such as kicks, katas and spectacullar breaks but that's way too far from being a fighter.In a real fight it's all different:no matter what you can perform in dojo's safe circumstances you can't do it in hot blood, when there is an actual danger, if you aren't experienced enough.

So I think Charlie would have kicked his ass

[maphillips3]

And I believe to that Elvis had a bodyguard on the set all the time, so that should Tell you alot about how tough he REALLY was.

[chaney]

In regard to Elvis' black belt, he was awarded his 1st black belt in 1960 by a legendary airborne ranger named Henry "Hank" Slomanski. By all accounts this was not a token celebrity belt, and it was Ed Parker who sent Elvis to Slomanski for exactly this reason. He wanted him to legitimately earn his belt before Parker himself trained him further. There are several articles on the internet about Slomanski and some about his training of Elvis. Check out:

www.tracyskarate.com/Stories/was_elvis_really_a_black_belt.htm

www.elvischitoryu.com/

[arthurbishop]

I think Bronson would have destroy him, in and out of the ring. Charlie is obviously a lot tougher in general. As a martial artist myself I know that unless you train like Bruce Lee it is useless, boxing is a far more practical and on top of that Elvis always looked pretty weak.

[chaney]

For what it's worth, I could envision Charlie putting Elvis down in pretty much any situation as well. However, I do believe at this point in Elvis' career he was at the height of his interest in karate and skill. Look at some of his early fight scenes and you'll see he moves exceptionally well and never uses a stunt double. Stuntmen of the day were surprisingly complimentary of Elvis.

The bodyguard on the set was his long-time friend Red West, the guy who protected him in high school when others teased him about his sideburns. It just so happened that Red West went on to play college football and become a U.S. Marine. He reconnected with Elvis when he got out of the Army and began working on his films as a stuntman who would often do fights with Elvis. Red was primarily Elvis' friend as opposed to bodyguard but began to take on the latter role because Elvis' life was so crazy around this time. Red's cousin Sonny West was also a heavy hitter and the two both learned martial arts alongside Elvis and often served as his sparring partners.

Both Red and Sonny West had side careers as stuntmen in other films and TV shows throughout the 1960's. Red could be seen a lot on THE WILD WILD WEST with Robert Conrad. The point is they were Elvis' friends from back home who stuck with him and looked out for him, not because he had hired a bodyguard to protect him. They also didn't always see eye to eye with him, especially when Elvis began taking so many pills. Elvis eventually took them out of his life the further he descended. They wrote a book shortly before Elvis' death as a revealing wake-up call, but it was too late. Elvis died only weeks after the release of the book. Loyal Elvis fans considered them traitors and didn't believe their stories, but they genuinely cared for the guy.

By the way, pretty much everyone in the movie industry was complimentary of Elvis and his good manners. Some thought he was a little crazy having fun and horsing around on sets with his buddies, but when you're making GIRL HAPPY and CLAMBAKE there's probably not a lot of artistic prepararation. Charlie was one of the only actors I ever heard of Elvis having a beef with but that was probably due to Charlie being so stoic and as mentioned before they might both have been pursuing Joan Blackman on the set. In various interviews, books, and articles with Red and Sonny, they have both stated that they personally liked Charlie, but that he was indeed very quiet and let it be known he didn't care for Elvis.

[Mean Little Ass-Kicker]

Could anyone go a little bit into detail as to why these two highly talented gents didn't get along?

[chaney]

Welcome to the forum Mean Little Asskicker. Some of the older threads go more in depth with the dislike Elvis and Charlie had for one another on the set. Most of the books about either man say Elvis was heavily into his karate phase and was always practicing on the set and breaking boards. Charlie thought it was showing off and let it be known to Elvis' cronies that he wasn't impressed. In the early 60's karate was still viewed with suspicion in the United States and boxers (Charlie's background) were always on the defensive as to which style of self defense was better and more functional. Elvis took to referring to Charlie as "the muscular ape".

Robert Relyea was a prominent assistant director and wrote a great book about all the films he worked on such as "The Magnificent Seven" and "The Great Escape". He talks a lot about Charlie and says that on "Kid Galahad" both Elvis and Charlie were romancing co-star Joan Blackman, so there may have been friction as a result of that as well.

[Mean Little Ass-Kicker]

Very interesting. Thanks for the reply & welcoming!

[Someone that knew him]

Sounds like y'all are jealous of Elvis and further more Charlie didnt have a big problem with Elvis, this is all rumor that has circulated for years

[Mean Little Ass-Kicker]

May 26, 2015 1:13:57 GMT -5 Someone that knew him said:

Sounds like y'all are jealous of Elvis and further more Charlie didnt have a big problem with Elvis, this is all rumor that has circulated for years

I don't think the fellas discussing Elvis are jealous of him, just very pro-Bronson. Could you go into more details about all this being rumors that has circulated? There's a pretty good read in another thread on the forum about an incident on the set between the two that is amusing and made Bronson look pretty bad. I can't find it at the moment, but it's here somewhere.

[Bronson and Elvis Fan]

Elvis didn´t like it that Bronson criticised his Karate and said to his Memphis Mafia pals that Bronson Looks like a "Muscle Ape".

If Bronson wouldn´t laugh at Elvis´s Karate skills, I suppose they would get along fine.

But that´s all I read. I don´t know what the truth really is.

I also heard that Elvis liked Bronson´s "Death Wish" though he didn´t like him as a person

[dimitris]

Dont have any problem with Elvis and i like some of his songs.....but come on now,8th dan in Kenpo Karate at his age is too much....8th dan is someone who have mastered his art and is grandmaster...some Judo 8th dans are 70 and 80 years old and they study Judo since they were boys.Maybe that is what Charlie didnt like about Elvis s karate and i cant blame him

[maphillips33]

I admit breaking boards is somethiong else, but boards don't hit back!

[Jim]

I wrote a book on the Elvis movies, and one of the Elvis cronies stated that Presley and Charles Bronson were a bit unsettled with each other at first, but eventually got along fine. One bit of trivia -- Death Wish in its original concept was actually offered to Elvis but the Colonel nixed the idea. The part, of course, went to Bronson, and it is true Elvis liked the film. Personally, I think Charles Bronson turns in one of his better performances in Kid Galahad. He had far more range as an actor than he's given credit for (and at the same time, I always felt Elvis had innate talent as an actor that might have done better had it been cultivated).